Erika Lust talks about how porn, ethics, values are not mutually exclusive ideas

Erika Lust 

Born in Stockholm, Erika Lust is a Swedish feminist porn director, screenwriter and producer. Along with Anna Span and others. Lust has pioneered the field of feminist pornography across the world. 

Lust is a graduate in political science and feminist studies. She became interested in pornography during her days as a student at the University of Sweden; she also credits authors Linda Williams and Jean-Jacques Annaud as her inspirations. She has also written several books on the subject. 

Lust works out of her own production house called Lust Cinema. The production house is known for its diverse films, ethical standards of production, and is hugely popular with women and men worldwide. 

Apart from leading a Ted talk on the future of the porn industry, Lust won the Feminist Porn Award for Movie of the Year in 2012 for her film  Cabaret Desire 

It also won the Cinekink Audience Choice Award for Best Narrative Feature. The first two compilations of her XConfessions series have won her the Feminist Porn Awards for Hottest Straight Vignette in 2014 and 2015 respectively. She has also written several books on the subject. She lives and works in Barcelona. She sees “porn as a discourse about sexuality.” 

Lust is known for promoting fellow female artists and directors

Lust with her family

*Q&A with Erika Lust

How did you get started making pornographic films?

It was while studying political sciences and feminism at university in Sweden that I became interested in the link between feminism and porn. The book Hard Core: Power, Pleasure, and the Frenzy of the Visible by Linda Williams really opened my eyes to seeing porn as a discourse about sexuality, and it hugely influenced me and deepened my interest in porn as a genre and a tool for sexual liberation.

I then moved to Barcelona to study film. I made the short erotic film The Good Girl and put it online, and within a few months it had over  2 million views! I was thrilled to say the least! That's when I realized there was an audience for the kind of films I wanted to make and see myself, a real appetite for intelligent cinematic erotica! I knew I wanted to keep creating films and decided to start up my own production company, Lust Films, and it's now been ten years since I made The Good Girl!

What is different in your films the what one usually finds on the net?

Me and my team put a lot of work into script-writing, making sure the narratives and locations are captivating, that the performers are relatable and interesting... and they have to have real chemistry! 

There is so much that goes into my films apart from the sex... the buildup, seduction , anticipation, the aesthetic. Humans are sexually intelligent creatures and there are so many things that can excite our senses. As much as I want the sex to be exciting,  I also try to capture as many of those other things that make sex exciting too!

Also, with my project XConfessions, I get to know that people really fantasize about. On my website XConfessions.com, people from all over the world share their erotic fantasies and memories, and every month I pick two stories and turn them into erotic short films. It's an incredibly exciting and inclusive project. I get to make my audience's fantasies come to life! That's something that you won't see on a mainstream site. The stories that come in are so imaginative, each one is so different from the next!

Why do you think it's important to have female-centric porn when the stats say more men watch porn than women anyway?

Well, part of the answer is in your question, why do you think more men than women watch porn? Because most films out there are male-centered and cater to the male gaze only! It doesn't have to be that way though: alternative erotica offers more diversity, higher production standards and exciting narratives, that both women and men can enjoy!

How do you feel about the treatment of women in the porn industry?

In chauvinistic porn, the sad reality is that women are often taken advantage of, abused and forgotten when they have been "used" - not in all porn, but of course that horrible side is a reality as well. I want to have an alternative to that! There is no reason sex on film should all be done in a smutty, shady, exploitative manner - it can be done in a safe space, artistically, humane and with respect for everyone involved. It can be a truly positive thing if we choose to create films based on good values and with respect and love for our fellow human beings!

Lust at work

Sex can be fun, and so can its portryal 

What do you do in your films and company to counter the exploitation of women in the porn industry?

If you visit my page, you can see plenty of interviews with performers from my films. They are all different and everyone has their own, unique story about why they want to be in my films. You will see that they are all articulate and have thought long about their decisions and all have their individual reasons they want to work with us. Something that they all have in common is that they are all sex-positive and smart people, who all understand that sex is a beautiful thing and nothing to be ashamed of! I only work with people who share my values and understand the Lust ethos.

In India, we are debating whether porn increases violence against women. Do you agree that it could?

I think chauvinistic porn could have negative effects on society. I think porn is a discourse about sex and works like an educator about sex and gender  - so if a massive part of the cultural landscape, meaning traditional porn, is chauvinistic in its portrayal of women and embodies regressive ideas about women, sure those ideas are going to rub off when they are presented again and again: that's why it's important to have positive alternatives!

What do you think the industry and society could do to counter the false notion or real effect (as the case may be in your opinion) ?

First of all, I don't think chauvinistic porn is a sole cause for violence against women - because those films don't exist in a vacuum- They are based on a sexist ideology and part of a patriarchal structure. 

So just talking about porn isn't going to solve anything, we have to talk about everything, about women, about men, about gender, about sexuality, about double standards, about power. Talking is important, and once we start getting these important things out in the open, we can better understand why we have, for example, such a vast amount of porn that is hostile against women. Often people are just fed with images that they respond to without questioning where the ideas behind the pictures come from! 

I would love to see more female-led erotica. Like all other sectors of society that are striving for equality, sex on film should be an equal thing as well. Cultural categories concerning sex and sexuality need the ideas and decisions from women! 

Do you think female friendly porn is also important and appealing to men?

Often the category called "female-friendly" is often produced by men and is full of romantic clichés and terrible narratives. My films are different than those, and yes I know for sure that men love them! 

Over half our audience is male. Just because my films pay attention to the sexual needs and desires of women doesn't mean that men don't want to see them. That would be quite depressing if that was the case! Luckily it's exactly the opposite, and men like women, love to see erotic films with high production standards where the performers look engaged, pleasured and enjoying themselves for real. 

It's a myth that female-led erotica is just for women - my films are for everybody!

What's your favourite part of a porn film?

From my own erotic films: every part from initial idea all the way through the final product.

Which other directors and film makers would you recommend from the industry?

Ovidie, Tristan Taormino, Jennifer Lyon Bell and Vex Ashley from A Four Chambered Heart. I admire their innovation and creativity in erotic film a lot and they are really engaging in the new erotic movement that is going on at the moment!

Any message for young girls just starting to discover porn and experiment sexually?

I think sometimes as a woman, it can feel as if your sexuality has been hijacked - maybe by societies ideas about sex, social stigma, mainstream porn, unrealistic beauty standards, - it can be a lot of different things! To enjoy sex, you have to think about what you want, what desires and fantasies you want to entertain and what makes you happy, and also what doesn't make you happy.

It's good to know that all the images we see about sex are not necessarily true.

I think it's important to try to wash away the shame that it seems a lot of young women are still expected to feel about sex. Sex is meant to be pleasurable and fun! It's a natural thing after all. Whether you want to have sex or not have sex, you should be able to feel free to think about it, have it, and enjoy your sexuality in any way you want, as long as you don't hurt anyone else.

In your opinion, what will change in society, and in how men and women view sexuality, if and when the genre of porn changes and starts making content that respects women?

I'd love to see more alternative erotic film makers. I hope my films will inspire some to make their own films. Also, It's been great to see that more and more people understand the concept of feminism more in the last couple of years, where as before it was so vastly misunderstood in the public conversation. I think that is something that can help in conversations about porn and representations of men and women. Feminism is about equality of the sexes, men and women, working together for equal rights. When we can talk about sex and sexuality more openly we can start to make positive changes that can benefit all of society!

What do you think of the GoI's recent ban on porn sites?

I find it quite contradictory that such a country with a young population, and a sex positive history going back to B.C., would go so backwards in time by banning pornography. I think that sexual education, and -- why not-- porn education, is more vital and effective than censorship.

Banning these sites won't stop people viewing X-rated content, it will only fire their desire to go to other places to find it, , or use thing like Black VPN. Possibly alternative erotica sites and material that do further the cause of ethical treatment of women in the films and industry will not be reachable from India, because they are going to be put in the same box as the chauvinistic porn.

India needs to keep fighting for their right to sexual expression and exploration. Looking at old scriptures of your ancestors exploring their sexuality freely is legal, but tryung to find a modern depiction of sex is illegal. That's irony defined.

People in India are smart and opinionated. You have already started the debate, let's discuss porn instead of banning it.

*An edited  and shorter version of this interview appeared on the Hindustan Times website on August 4, 2015

Do unto others

A professor walks into a room and asks three questions. 

“How many people in this room have ever played games with a member of the fairer sex that you were attracted to?”

Every hand in the room goes up, albeit tentatively. 

Then he asks, “How many people in this room have ever been played by a member of the fairer sex that you were attracted to?”

The same hands remain suspended in the air. 

Having set everyone up, the professor asks his final question, “How many of you enjoyed the games played with you?” 

Everyone puts their hands down.

You’d think, being creatures of logic, we would be able to see the contradiction in that but lets be honest, we don’t. Even as some of you read this, you’re thinking ‘well, i like playing the game,’ or that ‘games are a part of courtship’ and my personal favourite, "the game is fun!" and you know what, perhaps you’re right. 

Perhaps we are so obsessed with the idea of competition, participation, showing the other person up, that we’ve turned life, into the greatest game of them all. The only question that remains- whose winning? 

I’m not going to give you the answer to that, because I’m not here to provide answers and more honestly, I don’t know. I’ll say this much though, if you’re winning, why do you feel like shit all the time? There’s a few of you out there who are thinking - ‘Well maybe you’re not playing the game as well as you think,’ and again, perhaps you’re right. 

Perhaps a few people out there, like me, are too stupid, too slow and downright retarded and so refuse to play the game because we don’t know how. Conversely could there be another lot out there, smarter than I, better than I, more agile than I, who can play the game, who would win if they played, and perhaps they don’t enter the field because they know - in love and in life, number one is the loneliest number to be. 

Now the something that interests me and I think everyone should think about, something the professor demonstrated quite well - everyone plays the game, which means everyone knows the rules, which in turn means, you know when those rules or the game is used on you and when you become the played and not the player, the same tricks you utilize are being turned against you.

So if everyone knows the rules of the game, why do we allow ourselves to fall prey to them? 

Again, I’m not here to give answers but I can offer some explanations, being able to see as all of us are really, the game from both ends of the spectrum. I’ve played and been played, more than I care to admit. 

Here’s something I’ve concluded, ‘been played’ isn’t the right terminology. No one can make you lose at a game that you’re not participating in, everyone knows this. So what is really going on in those times when you allow the other person to play games with you? and why, if you all know this, do you indulge it? 

Here’s what I came up with? The game doesn’t work on someone who doesn’t care about you - and similarly you do not play along with someone else’s game unless you care about them. This means, you can play games with a person who wants to be played but not with someone who doesn’t want to play. 

In the back of our minds, all of us know this but don’t admit it. I think this is because its a terrifying concept for most of us. The idea that we don’t have as much control as we think we do. The idea that we’re not being as cunning or as smart as we thought we were. The idea that it’s not the player whose in control, but the played. And really, that is how it is.

I’m not here however to tell you to take control of your lives, or get over the idiot whose making a fool of you. I’m not even here to tell you how you can turn it around in your favour. I’m here to say - there is no favour, there is no win, love and life aren’t about games, so stop playing them.

If everyone can further admit, despite what our egocentric minds lead us to believe, that we are not the centre of the universe, we are not the smartest people on earth, we are not the most desirable, not the kindest or the best or the brightest, you may learn to appreciate the ones who (and god knows why) do see the best, the brightest, the kindest sides of you. 

That’s what a played person is, someone who sees the good in you and therefore is willing to indulge the stupid, in order to get to it. To this person, you’re the ultimate prize to be had  in life’s giant Kinder Creme Egg, and you, with your games, your need to win the unwinnable, are simply disrespecting the one person (or maybe two, three if you’re lucky) who sees something good in you. 

This post isn’t gender specific, I think we’re too far evolved for that, or at least I hope so.  Neither does this post refer only to love between two consenting adults. It can’t possibly, because people play games in all walks of life. Be it with your lover, your friend, your parents, your siblings. The ones who enjoy the game do not discriminate between relationships or lives. 

However, if you’re a guy, the reference of Scarlett O’Hara might not resound in you as it will in most of the girls. If you’ve not read the book, you’ve watched the movie. At the very least, the image of a vivacious but vain green eyed schemer should flash in your mind. 

It’s a tragic tale about a self involved sweetheart whose games finally drove away the one man who loved her for everything she was (good and bad). A few of you may have read or watched it and tutted at the protagonist, ‘silly girl, played too many games with too little planning’ 

But read the novel again, watch a re-run on TNT, Rhett Butler’s parting words, later owned by Clark Gable hold the key to the entire (entirely too dramatic, drawn out to draw tears) novel - “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn!” 

It was not that he tired of her games, but that after a while, he stopped caring enough to play along and when that happens, when you use up all your nine lives with the ones who cared and they leave, do they ever come back? 

Another funny story about this book- Gone with the Wind. After its huge success, the author was asked to write a sequel, reuniting Scarlett with her lover, set things right (because didn’t all of us want him to stay and give a damn!). Here’s what she said while refusing the offer - “What’ll I call it? Back with the Breeze?”

So be gentle with those people who have been brave enough to give you their hearts and accept the darkness in yours. Be nice to those people who care about you enough to indulge in your silly game playing. Be kind to those who think you’re good enough to fall in love with. 

Because once they stop, and they leave, you may find out, albeit too late, that you miss them.

On people

I read a card the other day that said 'Sooner or later, everyone hurts you and that it is up to you to decide whose worth the pain'

The problem with this brand of Hallmark advice is that it is trying to reach out to such a large audience, that it forgets to be specific and ends up being vague and therefore, unhelpful. There's probably another card jumping to its rescue right about now saying, 'Well, hey its better to try  and fail rather than to never try at all.'

Without any criterion specified, how do we decide whose worth it? How do we decide who is our friend or predict which one of them will eventually hurt us? And how does one calculate if a person adds more value than they do, pain, in one's life?

When you're younger, these decisions are easy. In nursery school, you are friends with the first person who shares their goodies with you. In high school, your friend is the first person who smiles kindly your way. In university, it tends to be the person who likes the party in the same way as you do.

Then you cease to be young. I did not add 'one day' to the beginning of that sentence because that is like saying 'once upon a time'. There are no fairy tales, this is one of the things you learn in the painstaking process that is adulthood.

During this process, the same kid who shared his chocolates with you in kindergarten may have grown up with a desire to share more than you are willing. Is he still a friend, even if he no longer wants to be just so? The girl who smiled at you sweetly in school now tries her best to frown you down at every turn. Is she still a friend, even if she is not behaving like one at this time? If along the way, an enemy accidentally does you a good turn, is he your accidental friend?

Perhaps the easiest thing to do, would be to look at intentions. Then again, so many good intentions translate into ineffectual actions, one has to wonder if this system of rewarding intentions rather than results is really working to our benefit.

Still, perhaps we should assume the simplest path as Ockham did. If we were to do this, we would tell ourselves that the kindergarten friend knows everything about us and loves us. Then we would try and reciprocate. The frowns that are directed our way could be protective shields and we will hide behind them.

Then one may think,  what about love at first sight? or perhaps that we needed support at the time and not a shield. Picking your friends on the basis of what you need is a dangerous thing too. Just as we sometimes do not know why we do the things we do, we are not always the best judges of what we need either.

Which brings us back to - how do we know who to let in and who to keep out?

You know, the truth is , I don't know. What I've observed though is that you cannot control who enters your life or even the lives you stumble into. What's more, it seems to me that people cannot add or subtract value from your life. The only person who can bankrupt your life is you. I've never met an accurate accessor of the human spirit either. Whoever tells you that they can gauge the worth of a human being or encourages you to try to do the same thing, is lying.

People are unpredictable and usually so complex that their motives are hidden even from themselves. People will hurt you, love you, bring you pain and pleasure simultaneously, make you laugh till you cry, bruise you with their hugs and push you around with a kiss on your lips. Basically, people will bring you the broad spectrum of life, sealed and stamped right at your doorstep. There is no avoiding them.

This may perhaps be the best way to judge if a person is your friend- have they offered to or do they share a part of their experiences with you? Are they a part of your life? If the answer to these questions is Yes, then you must stop bucking, stop judging, stop examining and accept them as they come- because that is what friends are for.

and if the answer is Yes, then you must take deep breaths and remember the times that you inflicted on your friends, not so pretty parts of yourself. If you're really a friend - and you have to be one to have one - you will not tally the times against each other.

I think what I've concluded is that: people being people and life being life, one can not control either or bog them down with our individual expectations. One must simply allow each to run the course that they are. For the days that this current runs rough or inexplicably against you, you may find yourself pleasantly surprised by the support you receive, from unexpected sources.